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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
Discuss employment-law issues such as family leave, overtime, disabilities law, harassment, immigration and termination.
My company, a restaurant, has a discriminatory dress code policy in which male employees may not wear earrings, even as they heal. Males a re forced to romove them from their ears while on duty. Femal
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Forums » Topic Forums » Legal Forum » Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 3:45 AM EDT
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Posts: 20
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 12/2/1999 |
Nork:
I'm afraid you're mistaken. Emploers may NOT require females to wear skirts. That has been shot down in courts. You are, however, correct in saying employers may tell their employees not to have " metal rings stuck in their face." My rings are in my ears. Females may do it, and as far as customary, only in the U.S. and a few other countries is it not customary. Yes, I understand that is where we are. But, I also thought this is the country where we are allowed to voice our opinion. This is mine. It doesn't seem to fit in with yours, however I will keep it up. Why? Not to irritate you all, but to provoke you to think this issue through. What real reason is there behind not allowing males to wear earrings? So far I have seen absolutley none. And as for the professional legal advice. I have been to other lawyers on a strictly casual level. Some agree with me, others eventually gave in after hearing my reasoning and not being able to defeat it, and still other remain stubbornly by their first notion even after I systemattically destroyed their arguments. The EEOC did not say I didn't have a case, only that they would not take it on. Which, again I state, they made the decision on about two sentences, over the phone, from me on the topic. As for the case law, there is an abundance. But I would also show that most of it is far outdated. There are a few recent cases, but most do not deal with piercings and the discrimination involved therein. Again I belive I have presented reasonable arguments to the points against me, I would be happy to entertain any others. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 4:05 AM EDT
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Posts: 434
First: 6/14/1999 Last: 4/25/2001 |
You're calling your employer's refusal
to allow you to wear an earring discrimination. In the employment context, discrimination really only occurs on the basis of a reality about a person that isn't a matter of personal choice (the only exception being, I suppose, religion). The categories are race, religion, ethnic origin, disability, gender, age....I hope you're getting the picture here. The whole question of whether or not sexual orientation is a basis for protection under discrimination laws is largely based on whether or not homosexuals have a choice in their preferences. And you call your employer's decision not to allow males wearing earrings discrimination? How petty in comparison to the discrimination that a minority encounters, or a disabled person, or that a woman in the same job earns less than a man, or a worker in his late 50's trying to find a new job. The fact that the EEOC dismissed your claim after you only gave them two sentences is probably the only sensible thing that agency has done since 1964. Argue all you want to, but your claims are truly insignificant. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 4:20 AM EDT
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Posts: 434
First: 6/14/1999 Last: 4/25/2001 |
You're calling your employer's refusal
to allow you to wear an earring discrimination. In the employment context, discrimination really only occurs on the basis of a reality about a person that isn't a matter of personal choice (the only exception being, I suppose, religion). The categories are race, religion, ethnic origin, disability, gender, age....I hope you're getting the picture here. The whole question of whether or not sexual orientation is a basis for protection under discrimination laws is largely based on whether or not homosexuals have a choice in their preferences. And you call your employer's decision not to allow males wearing earrings discrimination? How petty in comparison to the discrimination that a minority encounters, or a disabled person, or that a woman in the same job earns less than a man, or a worker in his late 50's trying to find a new job. The fact that the EEOC dismissed your claim after you only gave them two sentences is probably the only sensible thing that agency has done since 1964. Argue all you want to, but your claims are truly insignificant. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 8:25 AM EDT
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Posts: 20
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 12/2/1999 |
Again you have not provided reasoning against my arguments other than that it is petty in comparison to larger problems. But, how do you suppose those larger problems began occuring other than through the reasoning: "well this little thing isn't bad, so this bigger thing is okay too."?
And you're are correct in saying that the only protected classes are race, religion, ethnic origin, disability, gender, & age. I fit under gender! A difference occuring between males and females. In particular, under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, my argument would fall under "terms of employment," which is basically a catch-all clause. So, despite how "insignifigant, i'm willing to bet that there are millions of others in the U.S. who would agree with me. I have quite a few in writing who have agreed already. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 8:47 AM EDT
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Posts: 11
First: 6/13/1999 Last: 1/7/2000 |
GET A GRIP. Your situation does not fit any Title VII definition. Get on with your life. It's obvious from your posts that 1) you have no HR background 2) that you don't listen to professionals in the field 3) you have a hidden agenda 4) you have trouble with authority. I say lose the earring or get another job. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 9:05 AM EDT
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Posts: 20
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 12/2/1999 |
Dear sir,
I find your personal attack on me to be quite surprising. My argument does fit under Title VII, as shown by a district Court Judge. As for not being in HR, I have admitted as much, what you hope to gain with that comment, I don't know. I do listen, that is why I've defeated all of your arguments. And in all actuality, I get along great with all of my managers. I work extra hours when asked, as well as perform the duties of multiple persons in the store. I arrive on time, dress "appropriately" while I am arguing my case, and have perfect attendance. I would appreciate your personal attacks on my character to stop. Thank you. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 5:09 PM EDT
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Posts: 38
First: 6/9/1999 Last: 10/26/2004 |
I am not one of those who know what is "right" or "wrong," like Sir (now Saint) Thomas Moore, I only know the law. (And I shall take my comfort there.) The law says (for now) that you loose. Thus, your recourse is the legislature, not the courts. |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/14/1999 9:56 PM EDT
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Posts: 8
First: 6/9/1999 Last: 9/14/1999 |
If the point is to allow a man to have pierced ears ... to keep the earring in through the healing process ... and not just to challenge whether the policy is discriminatory or not, I suggest offering to wear a bandaid over the "offending" ear while it heals. I KNOW it sounds stupid but I've seen more than one employer accept this compromise. (For body parts other than ears too) -- Beth |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/15/1999 12:32 AM EDT
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Posts: 20
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 12/2/1999 |
Dear sir,
you obvioulsy would know more about it than I, so I will take your argument as the first true hard argument against me. Congratulations. Now, if you would be so kind as to actually point out where it says that......? |
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Male Ear Piercing, Bad?
posted at 6/15/1999 12:38 AM EDT
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Posts: 20
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 12/2/1999 |
Beth,
That was the original solution. My company did, at one time, have that policy in effect. It was cancelled, because the company said people could see it and would quit coming to out restaurant anyhow. I say that's bunk. I wore a Band-Aid over an earring for 10 months straight, due to an infection and a repiercing. Personally I disagree with their argument to discontinue the Band-Aid policy, it being the same as the argument against earrings in the firtst place. But, I admit, I disliked the Band-Aid policy myself, I mean what if one fell off in someone's food? That would be most disgusting. However, it was cancelled, and that is when I began my fight. So far I have recieved resounding support for my side, not one person has said they would discontinue patronage to a business for male earrings. And since that is the base reason my company has against them, why should the policy continue? In the meantime, I would be happy to compromise, if one can be found. |
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