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Help...termination or another warning?
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Help...termination or another warning?
Discuss employment-law issues such as family leave, overtime, disabilities law, harassment, immigration and termination.
I am the HR mgr for a 55 ee company (been HR for 1 1/2 yrs). For the past 4 yrs we have had a Plant Mgr who has had some problems. He isn't good a follow through,confrontations, or discipline. Last we
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/7/1999 8:38 AM EDT
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Posts: 43
First: 7/5/1999 Last: 12/20/2001 |
I am the HR mgr for a 55 ee company (been HR for 1 1/2 yrs). For the past 4 yrs we have had a Plant Mgr who has had some problems. He isn't good a follow through,confrontations, or discipline. Last week there were a few major problems and it was decided that he would be demoted. The owners did not want to terminate at this point. A letter from the V.P was given to the Plant Mgr stating he had been given many allowances in the past (not writing mgrs up for poor performance etc.) and that this notice would serve as his demotion to a department mgr. (shipping). The problem is, today a customer sent us a liability claim for $10,000 - the cost of their damaged product. This was a result of shipping the incorrect material. When we looked into the foul up, we discovered the Plant Mgr was involved, he was supposed to double check the shipment - he claims he did but missed the problem. My dilema is - the ONLY documentation in this man's file is a bad conduct report (written warning) and the demotion. With this recent error, do we have grounds to terminate? With regular hourly employees we follow a progressive discipline policy. He was formally demoted on Friday the 1st. The shipment went out on 6/22/99 - we just found out about the error today - 7/7/99.
I would really appreciate any input here! Thank you. Tracy |
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/7/1999 8:44 AM EDT
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Posts: 43
First: 7/5/1999 Last: 12/20/2001 |
The problem that got him demoted in the first place was we were very unhappy with the current shipping managers performance, but the Plant Mgr had praised him in a formal letter written to the entire senior mgmt staff without consulting with anyone before he wrote the letter. This letter prevented us from terminating the shipping mgr. for fear that he would use the letter against us. This is what set the owners off and made them demote the both of them (shipping mgr and plant mgr.) Long and complicated story! I know. But I could certainly use some advice! THanks for taking the time to read this! |
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/7/1999 5:55 PM EDT
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Posts: 833
First: 6/11/1999 Last: 8/23/2001 |
How strong is your progressive discipline policy? Hopefully it was written as "up to an including termination" and allows management's discretion in skipping steps. If not, you may have guaranteed the employee protection unless you touch all the bases.
Since the error was just discovered, document it, investigate it, and then document the findings. Again, as long as there's no implicit promise that you MUST follow progressive discipline, and there's no bargaining agreement that would bind you to a proscribed procedure, you can do whatever you feel is wasrranted. My take from here, the demotion itself was for whatever performance you realized from this employee. Finding the error and being presented with the monetary liability would not necessarily throw it into the next level - ask yourself what you would do with the employee, or any other manager, if they did the same thing BUT the error was discovered before the demotion. If the liability complaint came before the demotion, would you have terminated? If so, do so now; if not, you've already demoted the employee so the discipline for the poor performance, including the error, has been issued. Ultimately, it all comes down to whether you feel the employee is worth retaining. |
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/10/1999 7:59 PM EDT
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Posts: 2217
First: 6/16/1999 Last: 12/13/2001 |
Hey, I do not believe it, I do not think I agree with Jim!
Let me speak strictly as a Legal Eagle and not has a HR Guru. You want to defend against a wrongful discharge claim. You have the manager a new job as a shipper. In that new job, you should evaluate his performance and make a decision whether to keep him in that job or not. For example, if you employed a brain surgeon demoted him to a short order cook, if you subsequently learned that he screwed up a brain surgery two years ago, would you fire him as a short order cook? What good would that do? How fair is that? [Those of you who know me know that I do not care about being fair. I do care that juries care about being fair. Thus, I care that juries care that I should care about appearing to care about being fair. Got that?] |
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/11/1999 7:13 AM EDT
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Posts: 43
First: 7/5/1999 Last: 12/20/2001 |
Thanks for the responses. I ended up terminating him. After speaking with the other mgrs we decided that it was in the best interest of the company. When confronted with the mistake made in the shipping dept his response was "I only checked the weights, not the product." That response isn't what we needed while looking at a $10,000 claim. The customer is looking for another rep. now - due to all of the errors, the Plant Mgr knew that and still didn't check the product before it left the building. It was unfortunate but in the end best for the co. Another Q : We provided him with 8 weeks severance and a company car, will this help us should he file a wrongful termination suit?
Thanks again. |
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/12/1999 12:47 AM EDT
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Posts: 43
First: 7/5/1999 Last: 12/20/2001 |
Well they gave him the car for a couple of reasons. 1. He used the car, we have no use for it as they see it. 2. The care was 9 yrs old, not very valuable.
3. They were personally sad by having to let him go, he was a friend and a very likable man. |
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Help...termination or another warning?
posted at 7/14/1999 6:29 PM EDT
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Posts: 2217
First: 6/16/1999 Last: 12/13/2001 |
If you gave the manager/former manager a company car (a nice gesture) and severance, but did not require him to sign a waiver of the right to sue, then the fact you gave the employee something to which he was not entitled has no legal significance whatsoever. A jury might take it into account when deciding the company's fate (I tend to play this part up at trial), but that's for the jury to decide. |
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