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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
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Hi again,
We are in the process of recruiting candiates for some positions here. We use outside recruiting firms. We now have an arguement brewing between two recruiters who claim they each notifie
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/10/2009 9:09 AM EDT
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Posts: 17
First: 2/23/2009 Last: 7/13/2009 |
Hi again,
We are in the process of recruiting candiates for some positions here. We use outside recruiting firms. We now have an arguement brewing between two recruiters who claim they each notified our managers first about a candidate. Hopefully , our managers have the original emails from the recruiters with the candidates resume(here, we can only hope). If they do, shouldn't the arguement be between the two recruiting firms and not us? whoever submitted the resume first should get the nod? |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/10/2009 10:00 AM EDT
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Posts: 1783
First: 11/11/2003 Last: 5/13/2010 |
Well, that's one of the more entertaining post titles I've seen.
I suppose a cage match is probably out of the question. If you've documentation of when you received the candidate from whom, then base your credit on that. Otherwise, credit the firm that has been more effective for you. Going forward, you may want to reconsider engaging multiple firms to fill positions that draw from the same candidate pool. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/10/2009 10:19 AM EDT
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Posts: 3870
First: 2/12/2002 Last: 11/2/2009 |
This happens very frequently when working with agencies and especially so when HR isn't managing them quite closely. Cynbrandt is right - first to get the resume to the company generally has the claim on the placement fee. In addition to checking the emails for time/date, also look at any terms and agreements that hiring managers might have agreed to when working with these companies. You might find some gotcha's there that go beyond simple first submission.
To avoid situations like this in the past, you should do a couple of things: 1. If you have an applicant tracking system, have the agencies only submit resumes through the system. Do not allow resumes to go directly to hiring managers from agencies. 2. Adopt an HR approval requirement policy for all agency "agreements". Many agencies have agreements which grossly favor the agency in any dispute; some terms might include outrageous fees, payment terms (net 10 days is a popular one), free replacement of a candidate only when it snows in the Bahamas, etc. 3. Absolutely make sure that it's acknowledged by the agency that you have a strict "first in" policy. Remember that these agencies aren't using the old fashioned Rolodex's anymore - they're mostly looking on public job boards for candidates. Which means they're mostly fishing in the same pond and will come up with the same candidates. This situation will come up again. (Hint: you can search and post on job boards, too. It's easy and way cheaper than agencie. And you might even find a good replacement for your boss). 4. If the hiring managers can't produce the email submission of the resume, then go to the agencies and either a) ask them to forward the original submission email to you, or b) tell them to work it out between themselves or the candidate won't get hired and no fee will be paid to anyone. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 2:37 AM EDT
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Posts: 1771
First: 10/24/2002 Last: 9/14/2011 |
"Do not allow resumes to go directly to hiring managers from agencies."
I heartily agree with this. Often agencies will try to do an end run around HR by sending resumes straight to hiring managers EVEN WHEN I TELL THEM NOT TO because they know the hiring managers don't look at the resumes as critically as I do. I try to forestall this by a) telling the hiring managers that the agencies are essentially insulting the hiring managers' intelligence when they (the agencies) do this, and b) telling the agencies that resumes sent straight to the hiring managers, bypassing me, don't count. Meaning that we won't even LOOK at any resumes that aren't sent straight to me. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 7:24 AM EDT
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Posts: 1
First: 6/11/2009 Last: 6/11/2009 |
It it also fair to mention, that most agencies have an "exlusive" clause within their agreement with the candidates that register with their agency. And it normally spells out that the job seeker (candidate) NOT enroll or sign up with any other agency, for the duration of the contract and job search time frame.
I might also add, that it also very common for job seekers to totally ignore this clause.. however they (the candidate)has to sign and agree to abide by these terms to not not be conracted with more than one employment search agency, at a time. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 7:38 AM EDT
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Posts: 1771
First: 10/24/2002 Last: 9/14/2011 |
When I have been a job-seeker in the past, I have always signed on with as many agencies as possible - and not one of them (and I'm thinking at least 50 or 60 over the last 20 years) has ever asked me to sign an exclusivity contract. I don't think this is common at all, and I think that any agency that tried to do this is one that isn't interested in getting the best candidates (I certainly wouldn't sign on with an agency that tried to get me to agree to exclusitvity). |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 7:43 AM EDT
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Posts: 1103
First: 3/16/2007 Last: 8/19/2011 |
I have never signed an "exclusivity cause" with any agency nor have I ever been asked to do so.
I have, as a customer (employer) signed exclusivity clauses with executive search firms in order to ensure the search was managed by one firm I had selected and at favorable rates too. Didn't matter where the person came from, they were sent to the firm for processing and regardless of who we hired the firm got credit. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 8:14 AM EDT
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Posts: 1771
First: 10/24/2002 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Yes, I too as an employer have signed exclusivity clauses with agencies. But never as a candidate.
Going back to Jeanneb's question, I just thought of something. The agencies I've signed up with have never sent my resume to a prospective employer without my permission - and when I've been called for permission by an agency after I've already given permission to another agency to send my resume to the same employer, I've always done the ethical thing and told agency 2 that my resume's already been sent by agency 1. Jeanneb, is it possible that your candidate only gave permission to one agency? If that's the case, then maybe that's the agency to pay. Or, if your candidate gave permission to both agencies, maybe there's something a little askew with his/her ethics...and maybe this candidate isn't someone you want to hire after all. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 8:30 AM EDT
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Posts: 3870
First: 2/12/2002 Last: 11/2/2009 |
First to the exclusivity comment above: Like the others, I've never been asked to sign an exclusivity agreement. I'd refuse to use any agency that had such a requirement.
Second regarding the permission to send along a resume to a prospective employer: I agree that a good reputable agency will indeed contact its candidate to get permission to pass the resume along. However, there are a lot of not so reputable agencies out there or, if the position is not particularly high on the food chain, an agency might logically decide to simply proceed with passing it along. |
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which came first, the chicken or the egg and is the company responsible?
posted at 6/11/2009 8:44 AM EDT
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Posts: 17
First: 2/23/2009 Last: 7/13/2009 |
as sad as this is going to sound I agree with everyone who says that the resumes should go to HR. The director has been told to convey that to the VP of sales who says he doesn't want that done-she won't do it, she can be easily bullied. Anyway, I mentioned to her also that I thought perhaps the candidate has an agreement (verbal) that if he says that he went with him instead of the other recruiter he would get a cut of the recruiter's commission. The candidate did say that he went to both, but that one didn't relay anything to him about our company. Doesn't make sense |
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