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Progressive Discipline Policy
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Progressive Discipline Policy
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I work within HR Recruitment for a company with over 10,000 employees. We have a clear policy in place dealing with employee discipline, to include steps involved with progressive discipline i.e. verb
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/23/2009 7:09 PM EDT
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Posts: 2
First: 6/23/2009 Last: 6/25/2009 |
I work within HR Recruitment for a company with over 10,000 employees. We have a clear policy in place dealing with employee discipline, to include steps involved with progressive discipline i.e. verbal (documented) written andfinal written warnings. This information is readily available. All other companies I have worked for have something in place that deals with this matter
Recently, a colleague started working in management for a much larger, nationally recognized,company and he can't find much of anything in the way of written guidance that deals with progressive discipline. He's embarrassed to ask -- he spent a lot of time looking with no luck. The HR Rep on site seems totally clueless in his opinion. I am not an HR expert, but it seems like this type of guidance would be a legal "must have" for a company of any size. |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/24/2009 3:26 AM EDT
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Posts: 1783
First: 11/11/2003 Last: 5/13/2010 |
With the exception of those who work in Montana and/or covered by a collective bargaining agreement (union contract), the employment relationship is "at-will."
Under "at-will" the employment relationship may be ended at any time, by either party, with or without notice, and for any reason (as long as it isn't adverse action based on a protected status). It is thus not legally REQUIRED to have a progressive discipline process in place, however it is certainly ADVISABLE. From the standpoint of effective management, it generally is better to reiterate expectations and to give the employee an opportunity to correct his behavior than to immediately boot him to the curb, and have to find a replacement. [Some infractions, of course, do warrant immediate dismissal.] If the employee is afforded an opportunity to improve, then the employer lowers its liability for unemployment claims: The UI agency may reduce the benefits an ex-employee may receive, or even disqualify him altogether. If an employee were to file a charge that an adverse action were a result of discrimination, documentation of the performance issues and corrective actions taken would be a key part of the company's defense. Even companies that have a progressive discipline policy will usually have an at-will statement in their HR policy manuals and/or employee handbooks. Such a statement provides a fallback for situations that progressive discipline may not address, such as a "lack of fit." That fallback should, however, be used very sparingly. |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/24/2009 4:15 AM EDT
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Posts: 2146
First: 2/15/2006 Last: 9/14/2011 |
I agree with Cynbrandt and will say that a consistently used progressive discipline policy can help if your company ever gets hit with an EEOC claim. Because the EEOC will ask not only for documentation on that employee but how you handled the same and other situations with other employees. If you have that policy and the documentation to go along with it -- it can help show that you applied policy consistently.
A lack of a policy means a lack of consistency in disciplinary actions. But it is not legally required to have a policy and it could be that they have an "unwritten" policy that is consistently upheld or that your friend is just looking in the wrong place. If it is that large of a company, where and when do they do mgmt training? That is where I would suspect they go over the policy (whatever it might be). |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/24/2009 7:45 AM EDT
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Posts: 464
First: 6/30/2004 Last: 11/22/2010 |
I support the use of the progressive discipline policy, consistently applied, and the advice to document, document, document.
There is an althernative view that was held by a former Exec Dir of ours. She came out of the hospital industry, which makes this next statement very wierd. Her approach was to document nothing. She claimed that this large hospital entity followed that philosophy and was advised to do so by the company's lawyers. I personally do not believe that to be good advice or that she really understood it, even though she is a very smart lady. She never went into great detail and fortunately did not try to force this approach on our agency, but the theory was that all the documentation did was to enable the good lawyers on the other side to use your documentation against you. The thought was, with no documentation, all that could be done was to speculate that the company had inconsistently applied policy. In other words, they could not prove the negative statement, which was the company did not consistently apply discipline. I suppose in a big case, plaintiff lawyers could at least know who was employed and when they left and perhaps search out live witnesses to testify that things had happened differently, but that is a greater effort and a more costly investment in an uncertain outcome. Again, I don't support this, but thought I would just toss out an alternate viewpoint. |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/24/2009 8:21 AM EDT
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Posts: 2146
First: 2/15/2006 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Interesting viewpoint...I do agree that it is better NOT to document if you are NOT consistently applying policies. And it could be that the hospital counsel found this out and that is why that advice was given. It is worse to have a policy and not follow it than to not have a policy at all or to not follow it consistently.
But to me, lack of documentation means that you can't prove a positive OR a negative. I was sure glad I had (positive) consistent documentation when I was fighting a discrimination claim against the EEOC. And I have yet to find that documentation has hurt us in any way (on HR, property liability, or contract issues). |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/25/2009 5:17 PM EDT
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Posts: 2
First: 6/23/2009 Last: 6/25/2009 |
Thank you for your opinions. This just keeps getting better: the size of the company I am referring to is a nationally known company dealing in financial products(BIG). Been around for eons.
Fed up and frustrated, my friend finally asked HR rep about a progressive discipline policy. Answer: "No, we do not really have one in place. Issues are dealt with on a case-by-case basis. What we have in writing that is close to what you are looking for deals with the employee evaluation cycle". Checked the employee eval performance guide -- it does not cover issues that are "immediate" in nature. Asked about a typical or standard practice regarding the situation my friend was facing with an employee, the HR rep repeated, "We really go case by case, no standard practice." She then showed him an example of a written warning given to a non exempt administrative support type. In less than one paragraph--on paper that did not have company letter head--the employee was told she was failing in three areas. Nothing specific as far as expectations on how to address i.e. no specifics citing shortcomings, no way to measure improvement, no way to understand what exactly could be done to remedy the situation. A time limit of 60 days was given along with advisory stating she may be terminated at any time. VP that gave the employee this letter did not sign, employee was not asked to sign, HR rep was present during delivery. Further no mention--written or verbal--about distribution of the document, placement in employee file, time limits in personnel record, final disposition, etc. I'm sure that it is possible that a manager could write "you stink, fix it" on a napkin and it could be viewed as an acceptable warning by some, but I am shaking my head on this one. All I can say is, HUH? |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 6/26/2009 3:53 AM EDT
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Posts: 1771
First: 10/24/2002 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Sounds like this HR department isn't as "state of the art" as you're used to. However, that said, please note that there aren't any legal requirements for this HR department to do any more than it's currently doing. |
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Progressive Discipline Policy
posted at 9/27/2009 2:49 PM EDT
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Posts: 12
First: 9/27/2009 Last: 9/28/2009 |
Progressive discipline a topic near and dear to my heart and so many good answers. I would just like to elaborate on the at will presumption if I may. Today the employer's unbridled freedom to fire an employee without cause and without incurring civil liability no longer exists in many parts of the country.
Calling the at-will doctrine the default rule is misleading. while at-will employment used to mean a worker could be terminated for any reason at all, in the past 20 years, Congress and state legislatures have passed so many statutes barring discriminatory discharge, based on age, race, jury duty, whistleblowing, disability, family leave and others. Also many courts now refuse to adhere to the traditional view, finding little to recommend its continued application in a modern society, particularly where the circumstances of the discharge contravene a clearly mandated public policy or where the employer is motivated by bad faith or malice. The doctrine no longer carries the same meaning. In fact, the at-will doctrine as it existed is dead. There are mediocre employers and mediocre H.R departments that refuse to accept it, they dont recognize that the exceptions dwarf the rule, and at-will no longer means at-whim. |
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