Forums
Legal termination
Legal Forum
Legal termination
Discuss employment-law issues such as family leave, overtime, disabilities law, harassment, immigration and termination.
Here is the scenario:
Police show up. Take employee into custody for questioning. Explain to the employer that the employee is part of an on-going FBI and local investigation which will likely resu
1
Cat:Topic ForumsForum:ForumId54
Cat:Topic ForumsForum:ForumId54Discussion:DiscussionId36460
Forums » Topic Forums » Legal Forum » Legal termination
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 4:00 AM EDT
|
Posts: 1103
First: 3/16/2007 Last: 8/19/2011 |
So do you suyspend everyone who is taken away for questioning? How about terminate them.
At present this person is NOT charged, NOT arrested and NOT convicted (personally I think all sex offenders should be punished very harshly but he isn't one - yet). According to the PA law cite I shared above you have no legal recourse for terminating him, even if convicted. (you state his work does not involve children and he is not around children). So while some may be comfortable punishing someone for being questioned, I am not. I am quite confident Dave Arnold won't be either. Lets wait to lynch him until he is at least formally charged and arrested. |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 4:22 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 118
First: 2/28/2008 Last: 7/29/2011 |
Why the hell are you so angry and accusatory? I thought I was free to ask questions and get opinions without someone coming in here and blasting me for seeking opinions and trying to figure out a situation which is totally new and for which we do not have policies.
I am not comfortable with punishing him, not at all. I personally think we do not have a leg to stand on. I think it is sick and disgusting but that it has nothing to do with employment. However, decisions are not left solely to me. So I am trying to get information from other people who may have had some experience in something similar. I am comfortable putting him on suspension while we figure out what the heck we are doing. We've done this in a few cases where we had to do some research and make some decisions. It may be that he is brought back to work and paid for his time off. The reality is that we need to gather more information and figure out what we are doing. |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 5:06 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 1771
First: 10/24/2002 Last: 9/14/2011 |
I too am wondering why he has been suspended.
(And no, I am not being angry and accusatory, nor did I see this in my esteemed colleagues' posts.) How do you know that the police haven't made a mistake and are questioning the wrong person? (Believe me, this happens 'way more often than we'd like to think.) Maybe this is why they let him go without charging him. Or maybe they let him go because they've never had any intention of charging him, because they were questioning him to obtain evidence against someone else? Or perhaps they let him go because after the questioning, they realized he's not the perpetrator? Given this, and the myriad other possibilities there may be in this scenario, why is he being punished with a suspension? (Or, to paraphrase HRPro, if you're so sure he's done something that warrants a suspension, why not just fire him?) I think you've only two options right now: 1. Keep him on at work, wait and see what happens. OR 1. Fire him with a severance package. |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 5:07 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 1103
First: 3/16/2007 Last: 8/19/2011 |
Gee pf are you one of those who can read tone and inflection on a bb posting? It is evident from your over reaction that you are too close to this one and should seek legal counsel.
I am neither angry nor accusatory. I am simply pointing out the law in response to your questions. If you don't like the answers I would suggest not asking the question. Or would you prefer we just say its okay to punish him now because he was asked a question? |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 5:29 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 118
First: 2/28/2008 Last: 7/29/2011 |
One could easily say I am a little stressed out about this. It is not only on a professional basis that this is hard, but on a personal level as well.
The legal counsel said he could be terminated for misconduct for cursing when the police came in. To me, that is a far stretch, since if we fired everyone who cursed, we would have no employees at all. It is hard to be HR and go against your legal counsel - but I think it is bad legal advice. I really do. I don't think we could defend a case because the real reasons for firing him would be obvious. I was told by another lawyer when talking about something entirely different that when you just get caught up and don't know what to do, just send the employee away until you get your head on straight. Send him home or back to work if the case warrants, figure out what you were doing and if you were wrong to send him home then pay him for his time. That is why I am ok with this guy being suspended. If we decide today that he should return to work, then we pay him for his missed time. If we decide to terminate him, then we deal with that. Another employee was arrested and is in jail and it is in the papers. Employees know what is going on. It is probably in the employees best interest to be at home right now until the dust settles a little bit. I am worried about the problems that his being at work right now would cause. We may end up in a place where we would have to really fire some employees for misconduct. I am confident in having him home right now. If he returns to work and we pay him for his time off, so be it. |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 5:50 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 562
First: 11/12/2009 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Was the other employee arrested for the same/similar thing? No wonder you're stressed!
Suspending would be my choice, I think, given the circumstances. Last thing you want is more headlines, which might result from any internal fights etc should the employee return. |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 6:03 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 118
First: 2/28/2008 Last: 7/29/2011 |
Arrested for the same thing and implicated this guy, who was already part of an FBI investigation for the same thing - which we did not know beforehand.
I am stressed. It is hard. I know the wives and kids. Not that is has anything to do with the employment part of it, but it makes me want to be sure that everyone takes a step back and makes a rational decision, not an emotional one. That is why I think sending the guy home and giving it some space is the right thing to do. |
|
|
Legal termination
posted at 3/25/2010 6:29 AM EDT
|
|
Posts: 1103
First: 3/16/2007 Last: 8/19/2011 |
A suspension without pay is a relatively simple thing to do. It does or may carry a stigma (I was embarrassed, suffered emotional damages, etc) that could be used against you but I don't let things like that bother me. While I don't support it yet in this instance (if he is arrested and charged that would be different and I probably would not pay for the suspension either)it is a viable option.
If he is convicted you can hang him from a lamp post for all I care. (Here endeth the personal diatribe) I butt heads with legal counsel all the time; perhaps it is because I have over 30 years of HR experience and they have reported to me in the past. Regardless they are usually far from correct in a Corporate setting because most often they are not specialized in employment law. They do real good in the contract and related areas and I bow to their expertise there. Regardless, go for a walk. Take a day off. Go out in the parking lot and scream loudly. Get the stress out of your system. In the kindest of ways if you can't get this stress off of you because of this situation you may be well served by rethinking your career choice. Best of luck. |
Forums » Topic Forums » Legal Forum » Legal termination
