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Boss Behavior
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I had a former employee call me about the boss that took my place. She said that he is harassing her terribly & she is now out on mental stress leave because of it. She told me that he pulled her
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Forums » Topic Forums » Legal Forum » Boss Behavior
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/19/2010 11:06 AM EST
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Posts: 6
First: 11/18/2010 Last: 11/24/2010 |
HRPro - When an organization contacts me because they have someone who is treating others with disrespect, I certainly do not go in there pointing fingers and calling everyone a bully. I conduct an audit on the organization's culture and do interviews with employees to find out what their relationships are like. (And I of course never say, "Do you think X is a bully?) From there I can make a recommendation about appropriate action plans, whether it be communication skills coaching, assertiveness skills training, leadership training or programs, all the way up to a strategic culture change. In one organization, for example, the person labeled as a bully by his peers admitted to me that he was just passionate about the organization and got frustrated when he felt things were going wrong. He also said he knows he makes people uncomfortable but he doesn't know how to tone it down. He was also very frustrated by another manager whose department seemed to never get things done - and as a result "the bully" was very aggressive with that manager. We did communication skills training for the aggressor, and project management skills training for the other manager. In addition, he was really micromanaging the logistics employee who handled customer orders and shipping. She didn't need to be micromanaged according to her direct boss and according to the president, but "the bully" thought she should be doing things differently. We worked together so he could come to an understanding about why she did things the way she did, and so she could be open to suggestions from him.
Was that person a bully? Well his peers thought so. Ultimately it doesn't really matter - it was clear he was harming production because so many were scared of him, and as a result that was harming the bottom line. This organization was lucky that the president paid attention to how people were being treated. So often, unfortunately, the opposite occurs. Recently at the University of Virgina, for example, an employee talked to HR about the way his boss was treating him 17 times. Whether his performance was lacking or not (I don't know), the boss was treating him in a way that was really hurting him. He responded by committing suicide on campus. I realize the list of example bullying behaviors I provided was subjective... but bullying is subjective. You could you have two people treated exactly the same way by their boss - one thinks he's kind of a jerk but no big deal - while the other feels verbally abused and becomes depressed. Either way, both of those employees' work suffers because they don't have respect for their boss, and that hurts loyalty to the company. Obviously one's subjective view of the severity of the behavior is correlated with just how much the work product is hurting, but either way, the work product from both is suffering on some level. I'm bothered that I am being attacked for offering a place for the original poster of the issue to go and get more information about the situation. The website I posted is an educational one, and is not my company's own website. If the website didn't belong to me, would that have been okay by your standards? Seems unfair that I can't share information with someone seeking it simply because it's my website. If someone needs help, I'm going to offer it to them. Janimal - I mentioned the information about PTSD because it seems that the severity of bullying is being dismissed by many of the comments here. If you'd like the facts please let me know and I'm happy to post several research article citations for your review. You'd find in reading them that I'm not throwing out random statistics with no bearing... I am, indeed, throwing out facts. |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/19/2010 1:56 PM EST
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Posts: 1103
First: 3/16/2007 Last: 8/19/2011 |
"I realize the list of example bullying behaviors I provided was subjective... but bullying is subjective."
Purely subjective and therefore unworthy of being officially labeled by any professional as indicative of bullying behavior. If you realized such, and can admit the broad interpretation they can elicit, it makes me curious as to why: 1. You even offered them, and, 2) What value they can possibly present. In other words you are presenbting that opinion is of greater value than proven fact. Business has enough opinion, real value added decision making comes from factual measurable information; not opinion. Subjective association is what causes HR so many credibility problems. "Well I think" is so much weaker than "I know and can demonstrate." âObviously one's subjective view of the severity of the behavior is correlated with just how much the work product is hurting, but either way, the work product from both is suffering on some level.â Another subjective assumption with no factual measurable validity. "I'm bothered that I am being attacked for offering a place for the original poster of the issue to go and get more information about the situation." This reaction explains everything. As a professional and an executive responsible to my organization I have a duty to point out exploitive activity and assumption that is seeking to create a need and problem where none truly exist. Thank you for making my point. |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/19/2010 5:23 PM EST
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Posts: 2146
First: 2/15/2006 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Now HRPro, I am suspecting that the poster is feeling bullied because we are not validating her perspective. We are not jumping on the bandwagon of proving how much bullying really takes place in most workplaces. Here she is posting a valid viewpoint and we are disagreeing. Maybe we need a mediator, 'ya think? (said tongue in cheek)...
Unfortunately HR and management usually do NOT have the ability to go "personal" with employees. To dig deep into the reasons and feelings and emotions. To smooth over hurt feelings. To babysit one who is feeling persecuted. At some point, it DOES need to get back to the business of running the company and working towards that goal and needs to be less about feelings and more about realistic expectations and being productive and putting personal feelings/perspectives aside. Is there a bully boss out there? I am sure there are....but I have my doubts as to how big the problem truly is. |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/20/2010 5:29 AM EST
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Posts: 6
First: 11/18/2010 Last: 11/24/2010 |
Isn't sexual harassment subjective? Two people could be told the same dirty joke, but one might not be bothered by it while the other complains of sexual harassment. Should we not be paying attention to that either? Does that not deserve a label then since it's subjective? Are sexual harassment trainers and consultants exploiting the system?
I can assure you I am not feeling bullied because you don't agree with me. It's just interesting to me that my offering up a solution for the original poster is met with such annimosity because YOU disagree with me. Ultimately it doesn't really matter if you think bullying exists or not. As a researcher who has read thousands of scientifically-based research articles in respected peer-reviewed journals such as Management Communication Quarterly, Organizational Behavior, Personality and Social Psychology Review, Human Relations, Aggressive Behavior, Journal of Management Studies, and hundreds of others, and worked in the field for seven years, I know that it does. It's attitudes like yours that perpetuate the problem. I do notice a correlation between people who don't think bullying exists and a certain kind of communication style... So here's my question - the original poster indicated that she doesn't think this employee has a performance problem. When she was the employee's boss, the employee was wonderful. Now she has a new boss, and that boss seems to be abusing her. If this employee came to you to discuss all of the behaviors listed in the original post, what would you do as the HR manager? Perhaps we can actually try to do some good here and help the original poster. |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/20/2010 7:10 AM EST
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Posts: 32
First: 11/16/2010 Last: 1/3/2011 |
Regarding the original posting: from my perspective as a conflict consultant, more information is needed.
While "bandaid" approaches are sometimes effective as well as time/cost efficient in the short-term, they may not suffice in the long-term. From the information available, it sounds like this has been going on for quite awhile - which tells me it may require more than a little first-aid. Certainly, the employee's well-being is a genuine concern from a human level. The employer needs to carefully consider how to move forward in ways that: 1) support the employee so she can get back to work, 2)don't exacerbate the negative impact of the employee's absence, and 3) don't trigger potential liability for the organization. All of this needs to happen in an atmosphere of trust. The employee must be able to trust that her employer values her enough to hear her concerns without making assumptions as to who is "right" or "wrong." This is precisely where the process can go awry. As soon as trust is perceived as being shaky, relationships begin to unravel. While an organization may be tempted to take a "tough love" approach (often without the love part), they may end up shooting themselves in the foot. Time spent carefully addressing an issue at the front end can save considerable time, money and grief at the back end. The need to keep an organization functioning effectively while simultaneously needing to carefully address issues that arise can create significant tension as well as potential conflicts of interest. Many organizations find that having an internal ombudsperson or bringing in an external neutral consultant can alleviate this. How an organization handles difficult situations is a reflection of that organization's culture - and a litmus test as to whether its mission statement has any meaning. I look forward to hearing what others think about constructive ways of addressing this situation. Thanks. Debra |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/20/2010 9:11 AM EST
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Posts: 1103
First: 3/16/2007 Last: 8/19/2011 |
âIsn't sexual harassment subjective? Two people could be told the same dirty joke, but one might not be bothered by it while the other complains of sexual harassment. Should we not be paying attention to that either? Does that not deserve a label then since it's subjective? Are sexual harassment trainers and consultants exploiting the system?â
Possibly and not always, but letâs change the scenario to something less obvious as a dirty joke is a dirty joke and the reasonable person standard will always declare it, in connection with similar behavior, as sexual harassment (in reality inappropriate workplace conduct) Calling a group of people âboys and girlsâ is much more subjective and could be interpreted differently by different people. That would be a better example in my view because of the seemingly innocuous use of gender labels that also could have other implications. There would have to be an understanding of unknown variables to determine if it was SH or innocent behavior. ANY consultant who claimed this was indicative of a workplace problem they needed to be hired to fix would be exploiting the issue. As to Debra's response. I simply don't know what to say. It is evident she sees bullying but that is to be expected. Beverage sales people who see thirst also see dollar signs - the parallels are obvious. The solution cannot be determined unless one knows exactly what is said instead of the hear say we are provided with. Based upon only the hearsay I see no evidence to support any form of external consulting or internal involvement to address bullying. There is no evidence in the OP's submission to support a bullying accusation. |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/20/2010 9:40 AM EST
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Posts: 32
First: 11/16/2010 Last: 1/3/2011 |
Hi, HRPro -
Well, you've lost me. Maybe that's your intent. I stated that more information is needed. I stated that these kinds of situations require careful consideration with regard to liability for the organization. If you make determinations - as you appear to be doing - on the basis of hearsay, you are taking a big risk. I don't see how you can possibly come to the conclusion based solely on the information provided by a third party that there is "no evidence in the OP's submission to support a bullying accusation." You are making a huge leap here and setting the organization up for potential legal liability (e.g., intentional infliction of emotional distress, ADA allegations, etc.). I don't quite understand where you're defensiveness is coming from. I can definitely accept if you believe my career and life's work studying constructive ways of addressing conflict is a bunch of baloney. I'm out here offering my help based on my knowledge and experience in the field of conflict management and dispute resolution. I'm attempting to support you. What gives? Debra |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/20/2010 11:47 AM EST
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Posts: 2146
First: 2/15/2006 Last: 9/14/2011 |
"If this employee came to you to discuss all of the behaviors listed in the original post, what would you do as the HR manager? "
(I forget what exactly the OP said....but here goes) I would speak with the employee about changes that often occur when bosses change. I would counsel them to speak with the boss about the prior expectations vs the new expectations. Honestly, those WILL change with a new boss. I suspect that due to the friendly relationship posed by the OP (friendly enough that this employee would call her later outside of work after she had left her position and complain about the new boss), there might have been some stuff that the old boss let slide, rather than confront. Or maybe it just wasn't important to the old boss but is to the new. That's the nature of different bosses and learning the new style/way, even if you don't agree with it. I know how frustrating it can be to "takeover" employees that have been used to a different business/management style. One that has been much more lax than the new business style. Even though they are walked through the new style, they want to revert to the old one. And get offended when they get called on the carpet for not following the new style. Honestly, I would tell this employee that they should view the position as if THEY started a new job-- but with experience. If they can't handle the new style, then unless they want to try to go over their boss's head (which can often be a career limiting move because SOMEONE higher above CHOSE to put this person into the manager's position and you might never be sure who was for it), I would suggest they look elsewhere for employment. I almost suspect that was more why the person called the OP -- that is to see if the OP had a job opening and would take them with her/him. Other than that, if I thought it was a manager issue, I would do some extra management training, but if this were a person with education and experience, I would NOT automatically assume it was the boss's issue. But rather an issue of the employee not being able to handle the change. Change is never easy. |
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Boss Behavior
posted at 11/20/2010 1:21 PM EST
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Posts: 32
First: 11/16/2010 Last: 1/3/2011 |
Hi, rrupert -
Thank you for your ideas on how you might handle the situation. I appreciate that we're all approaching this with very little information so there's some conjecture involved. The difficult part of your approach for me to understand is why you are willing to make assumptions that favor the organization, but you aren't willing to make any such similar assumptions on behalf of the employee. I'm afraid this is where you lose any trust the employee may have in his/her employer - and, thereby, set the organization up for potential union grievances and legal liability. As you well know, these consequences can be extremely costly in terms of money, productivity and profitability. And - as you also know - the cost reaches far beyond the employee and boss directly involved, e.g.,co-workers are wondering what's going on and are spending incredible amounts of time about it when they could be working. This happens when people don't know who to trust and their livelihood is potentially at stake. And this is just one example of a consequential cost. I'm sure you can name others. I'm not making this up. I've spent years taking calls from employees who have attempted to discuss an issue with their employer, and specifically with HR, only to feel patronized, disrespected and devalued- all because it is clear to him/her that the assumption is that the employee is at fault. It doesn't matter how nicely/instructively this is conveyed to the employee. Additionally,I've heard from scores of employees who state they would never go to HR with a problem because doing sounds the death knell for termination - and, even for an entire career. Trust is a difficult thing to regain. My original intent was to pursue a career as an attorney. However, after years of litigation experience as an employment paralegal, it was clear to me that litigation is not often (ever?) a useful mechanism for handling employment situations. I knew there were better ways - and many of them begin with that very first contact when an employee attempts to make a complaint in the workplace. I've been amazed at how fast things can go south. The ripple effect is set in motion. It's just not necessary and it certainly doesn't benefit anyone. This particular case has a number of red flags for me in terms of potential liability for the employer. Even based on the little information provided, this case is one a plaintiff's attorney might look at closely. Why? Because there are measureable damages - and damages that may increase. Damages means the potential for money in the attorney's pocket. I'm not saying this is by any means the only thing an attorney considers. But I can almost guarantee you: if there are no damages involved,it is highly unlikely any attorney will take on a case. Damages are an essential element of any employment lawsuit. An attorney must prove that the alleged adverse action has damaged his/her client in a way that can be proved and measured in real dollars. Non-economic damages (pain, suffering) only attach once actual economic damages (medical bills, wage loss, etc.) have been proven. Most plaintiff's attorneys work on a contingent fee basis. This means if the attorney doesn't make money for the client, the attorney will not see any money for his/her hours of work on the case. And, if the attorney has advanced costs in the case and the case is unsuccessful, there is often very little chance of getting reimbursed by the client - especially if the client has been terminated and has no income. The employer's position in this is very different. As soon as contact is made between an attorney for the employee and the employer, the meter begins running. Defense attorneys are paid by the hour - regardless of whether the case is successful or not. Having seen so many lives/careers ruined, I sought better ways to help employees and employers to handle conflict. Due to my background in employment law, I focus on conflict management/resolution in the employment arena. I firmly believe that a society is only as healthy as its workplace. Each of us has information and experience that can be shared and used collaboratively to ensure healthy workplaces. If any one of us believes he/she has all the answers, we're in trouble. If anyone has actually read my entire post -well, you deserve a medal of some sort. Thanks very much to all. Debra |
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