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take what you need vacation policy
Benefits & Compensation
take what you need vacation policy
Exchange ideas about health plans, retirement, work/life benefits, and employee assistance.
I would love to hear feedback from those who have implemented this or are thinking about it. I am concerned with if we implement:
1. do we have to payout current vacation balances when the policy is
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Forums » Topic Forums » Benefits & Compensation » take what you need vacation policy
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/18/2011 9:58 AM EDT
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Posts: 2
First: 12/14/2010 Last: 5/18/2011 |
I would love to hear feedback from those who have implemented this or are thinking about it. I am concerned with if we implement:
1. do we have to payout current vacation balances when the policy is changed? 2. how do you pay people who are out on leave of absence? 3. is there concern of abuse? 4. is there concern that some managers allow employees to take more time than other managers? 5. do you still have to track time out of the office for workers' comp purposes? Thanks! |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/18/2011 10:30 AM EDT
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Posts: 2442
First: 2/12/2000 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Interesting idea that I have not seen before. 1. do we have to payout current vacation balances when the policy is changed? I would see no reason to. They can now have whatever they want whenever they want with the priviso that there is no accumulation, so no payout. Technically they are not losing anything unless they were planning on leaving in the short term. I further assume that you have "reserved the right to change any and all plans as needed". 2. how do you pay people who are out on leave of absence? Depends on why they are out and also if this is now a PTO plan or just your new vacation plan. If just your new Vacation plan then Leaves of Absence are normally not "vacation". 3. is there concern of abuse? Concern? no. distinct possibility? yes 4. is there concern that some managers allow employees to take more time than other managers? You can bank on there being inconsistent treatment unless you have set specific guidelines with management regarding granting the time off. Bear in mind Managers must be able to deliver the work product and there must be staff to do so. 4. is there concern that some managers allow employees to take more time than other managers? 5. do you still have to track time out of the office for workers' comp purposes? Again it feels like you are mixing your time off usage. WC claims should never involve the use of vacation. The time off for WC is based on a full or partial disability and a doctors note advising on how much time off is needed. This is never vacation time. Have you consider the cost of the lost productivity? Have you considered whether new hires and 20 employees should have the same exact vacation time off? I am sure that there are other key questions but this should get us started. |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/18/2011 12:08 PM EDT
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Posts: 2146
First: 2/15/2006 Last: 9/14/2011 |
1. do we have to payout current vacation balances when the policy is changed? --Depends on the state and how it is earned; if it is already earned, you may still owe some if they leave prior to using all that was left in their bank; one choice could be to pay it all out at the time of the change...expensive but possible
2. how do you pay people who are out on leave of absence? -- Unless you are also giving STD/LTD pay, you don't; you could of course have a separate leave of absence policy but it gets sticky between long vacations and short leaves...where is the line going to be drawn? If you have an employee who wants to take a 3 week trip overseas, how is that different than an employee who needs 3 weeks off for surgery? 3. is there concern of abuse? -- there should be! it will be a distinct possibility....and let me guarantee you that you will have a hard time if you ever decide to terminate because they used "too much"....especially if your policy is very open 4. is there concern that some managers allow employees to take more time than other managers? -- once again definitely... you probably already see it now with those that allow late arrivals, long lunches and early departures; And you will have managers that will allow employees to write timeoff for sickness down as vacation to get paid (are you planning on separating the two?) 5. do you still have to track time out of the office for workers' comp purposes? -- you should still track time out of the office for ALL purposes...you still need to know when and how much employees are working! You need to know if someone is abusing it (and need to know historical data)....You need it for productivity calculations, etc. There are many reasons to track time and timeoff is just one of them. Beware also of FMLA if it is applicable...if you pay other types of leave, you must pay FMLA. You also must consider how sick time plays into this ... Personally there is NO way I would make this suggestion as a long term HR-knowledgeable person. I just believe that if the employer is TOO generous it will come back and bite them later. |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/24/2011 7:12 AM EDT
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Posts: 23
First: 4/7/2005 Last: 5/24/2011 |
Recently, I have proposed, to a client, that the organization set up a PTO "hours basket". The basket contains all PTO hours, vacation, sick, personal, etc. except holidays. For example, an employee with five years service would have Vacation (80), sick (40), personal (40), for a total of 160 hours.
Employees would have the ability to select time off when necessary. Of course, such requests would be approved based on the needs of the company. (You don't want the whole shipping department out on the same day(s)) If the employee believes that the supervisor is acting in an arbitrary manner by withholding approval, (s)he can appeal to the Human Resources Manager. In addition, employees could "donate" hours to co-workers who have an emergancy but not enough hours to cover the time off, such as extending sick (personal)leave or supplementing FML. Supervisor tracks, Payroll confirms. Bill paladinhrc@yahoo.com |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/24/2011 7:50 AM EDT
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Posts: 6
First: 2/25/2003 Last: 5/24/2011 |
I am aware of at least one company in New England that currently maintains this practice. It is different from a PTO bank; there is no limit per the policy on how much vacation the employee can take. The practical effect seems to be that most employees take less time off in these cases because they don't know what will unofficially be considered acceptable.
I remember interviewing with a financial services company about 15 years ago which had this policy in place. The hiring manager talked about it as an example of their culture. He said people took less vacation than they would if they were given a specific amount of time. |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/24/2011 9:05 AM EDT
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Posts: 2442
First: 2/12/2000 Last: 9/14/2011 |
Ahh group peer pressure applied to time off plans-I love it!
Let "the group" decide how much time off you should take. So if "the group" thinks you are taking too much time off they will what? Talk about you behind your back at the water cooler? If I decide that I want to take the month of August off do I have to be concerned what others think? Does this mean the meek will take less and the strong will take more? Why not do this with salaries as well? Let "the group" determine what you are worth.... and what your bonus should be. So what does this really mean? The company is unwilling to set the time off rules? Sorry but the fact that only one other company can be found doing this leads me to believe others have also thought it through and determined that this is not the way to manage time off. Of course I could be way off base here but that is how it strikes me a first glance. |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/24/2011 9:32 AM EDT
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Posts: 1047
First: 4/11/2002 Last: 9/14/2011 |
I think more time off should be encouraged for the overall well being of employees. Numerous studies show that Europeans have a better quality of life than Americans and time away from work is definitely a big reason for it. So I agree, creating a system in which peer pressure is meant to limit the amount of time off someone wants to take seems like it could do more harm than good over the long haul. |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/24/2011 10:16 AM EDT
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Posts: 2442
First: 2/12/2000 Last: 9/14/2011 |
And dare I ask about whether entitlement should be based on some business contribution factors?
For example, should a 2 year employee and a 30 year employee have the same amount of vacation time? Or should a VP be entitled to more time off than an admin? Which likely makes a greater contribution to the success of the firm. Or is too "old school" in thinking. (I am an "old school" guy sometimes ) |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/24/2011 2:53 PM EDT
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Posts: 562
First: 11/12/2009 Last: 9/14/2011 |
I'm a bit leery of the "peer pressure" approach. I think the definition of "too much time" is one that can be very fluid - while this might work well at the outset, I'm thinking that peer attitudes will become rather flexible over time and you may well find that the threshold of "too much" will be gradually increasing. |
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take what you need vacation policy
posted at 5/25/2011 4:19 AM EDT
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Posts: 2
First: 11/18/2003 Last: 5/25/2011 |
I've also been thinking in general terms about this concept for our remote workers. The reality is that they take "unlimited" vacation anyway and the company ends up keeping the liability on the books. Their vacation time is basically a savings account that is accruing 3% interest every year. So from this business perspective I think it makes sense.
It is my opinion that to make such a drastic move really depends on your business and the types of positions the system would apply to. To those who are skeptical based on abuse... If such a system was to apply to only exempt functions would it really be an issue? My thought is that if it was applicable to only that employee segmentation and there was "abuse" of privileges, then wouldnât their performance also be suffering? And if this was the case, then why wouldnât the "abuse" be dealt with through the performance management system? To sustain the program you would need to have a culture that supports the communication of clear performance expectations and ongoing management of those expectations and a management team that is skilled in this area. |
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