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Is it Discrimination?
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Is it Discrimination?
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Recently at our place of business, we had an ex-employee file a complaint for sex discrimination. In that complaint, she noted a Manager and VP who frequently berated the woman office manager by
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Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/15/2013 9:18 AM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 4
First: 12/12/2012 Last: 2/19/2013 |
Recently at our place of business, we had an ex-employee file a complaint for sex discrimination. In that complaint, she noted a Manager and VP who frequently berated the woman office manager by bad-mouthing, calling her stupid and laughed at her saying she had no power to tell them what to do. They also mocked the way she spoke. Just wondering if this would be discrimination? |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/15/2013 11:08 AM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 222
First: 9/29/2011 Last: 5/15/2013 |
Your question really should be "Is it illegal discrimination?" Discrimination is illegal if the basis for the discrimination is a protected characteristic such as gender, race, age, etc. Calling someone "stupid" might abhorrent behavior, but it would not be illegal. Calling someone a "stupid woman" could certainly be gender based and could easily be construed as contributing to a sexually hostile environment. |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/15/2013 11:34 AM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 4
First: 12/12/2012 Last: 2/19/2013 |
Thanks for your response. I should also add the person who filed the complaint against the VP stated she never heard the VP and Manager speak about any of the male workers in that way. By the way, this ex employee was terminated for being late, etc. While her male counterparts could come in late and it wasn't a problem. Even the woman they replaced her with is out almost once or twice a week and is allowed to with no problem. In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination?: Your question really should be "Is it illegal discrimination?" Discrimination is illegal if the basis for the discrimination is a protected characteristic such as gender, race, age, etc. Calling someone "stupid" might abhorrent behavior, but it would not be illegal. Calling someone a "stupid woman" could certainly be gender based and could easily be construed as contributing to a sexually hostile environment. Posted by nork4 |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/15/2013 12:16 PM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 40
First: 11/3/2011 Last: 4/26/2013 |
Depending on which court this case might potentially go to, the definition of Hostile Environment varies somewhat. Here in the 5th circut the bar is reasonably high. The conduct must be offensive and pervasive. A few incidents may not quality, unless especially blatant. Other courts my have a lower standard. Hopefully you have a harassment policy and you documented the complaint (if one was filed) and took appropriate action. There are lots of variables in tardiness terminations. Was her job time-sensitive and the guys no-so-much? Was she late more often, and later than the others? If all things are equal, it could however be evidence of disparate treatment. If the VP is dumb enough to think this conduct is acceptable, there are probably women in the organization who would agree with the complainant. This guy is potentially placing the company at risk and, if valid the complaints should be addressed from the Pres. |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/15/2013 6:55 PM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 216
First: 9/20/2011 Last: 5/15/2013 |
In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination?: Thanks for your response. I should also add the person who filed the complaint against the VP stated she never heard the VP and Manager speak about any of the male workers in that way. By the way, this ex employee was terminated for being late, etc. While her male counterparts could come in late and it wasn't a problem. Even the woman they replaced her with is out almost once or twice a week and is allowed to with no problem. In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination? : Posted by OfcMgr2010 Officemgr2010- 1. You are the complainant arn't you? Being late consistently is a serious offense. 2. What is the etc. that was also mentioned at termination? 3. Many times when someone is terminated, they look for another reason for the termination that is not the one they are advised. They refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. 4. If the replacement, another woman, is not being treated the same as you think you were, then your ability to prove gender as a reason for the termination is likely to fail. Perhaps there was other reason(s) that they berated only you? If the work environment was as bad as you state, then you needed to move on regardless. |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/16/2013 12:01 PM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 5
First: 2/15/2013 Last: 2/16/2013 |
Of course, there is no doubt the act falls under discrimination, they have badly insult the women. And she could sui them for the same under the act of employee ethics and code of conduct. As they truly misbehave with her. Which is not fair in any case. Fairways Supported Living 182-184 Hursley Road Toowoomba QLD 4350 Australia Phone : +61 1300 765 051 Providing community aged care supported living housing in Toowoomba, the Glenvale Villas are the perfect option for your loved ones, if they need a little extra help with daily living. |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/17/2013 10:50 PM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 216
First: 9/20/2011 Last: 5/15/2013 |
In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination?: Of course, there is no doubt the act falls under discrimination, they have badly insult the women. And she could sui them for the same under the act of employee ethics and code of conduct. As they truly misbehave with her. Which is not fair in any case. aged care tweed heads Fairways Supported Living 182-184 Hursley Road Toowoomba QLD 4350 Australia Phone : +61 1300 765 051 http://www.fairwayssupportedliving.com.au/ Providing community aged care supported living housing in Toowoomba, the Glenvale Villas are the perfect option for your loved ones, if they need a little extra help with daily living. Posted by Forty Forty- You have no idea about what you are talking about. Why do I say this? Because you have no Human Resources experience nor do you understand the difference between legal issues and ethical issues. If a company violated its own code of conduct, it does not automatically mean that this is illegal discrimination. "Misbehaving" and "not fair" are not covered by legal doctrine expect in very limited circumstances. In this circumstance, just because an employee, in this case a woman, may have been insulted by something someone has said, it does not automatically mean she can claim illegal discrimination. Illegal discrimination is a very specific legal determiniation bound by very specific rules While your instincts are good and she may have been mistreated that does not make it illegal but merely inappropriate and perhaps unfair. Regardless that is the way it is. These forums are covered by experienced Human Resouces senior staff. I suggest you read the responses to the questions and learn. Apologies if this came off as harsh as that is not my intent. Rather, I want to give you some perspective regarding a profession that takes a good deal of background, experience, knowledge and understanding before we respond to questions like this one. |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/19/2013 9:20 AM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 4
First: 12/12/2012 Last: 2/19/2013 |
No I am not the complainant. In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination?: In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination? : Officemgr2010- 1. You are the complainant arn't you? Being late consistently is a serious offense. 2. What is the etc. that was also mentioned at termination? 3. Many times when someone is terminated, they look for another reason for the termination that is not the one they are advised. They refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. 4. If the replacement, another woman, is not being treated the same as you think you were, then your ability to prove gender as a reason for the termination is likely to fail. Perhaps there was other reason(s) that they berated only you? If the work environment was as bad as you state, then you needed to move on regardless. Posted by howard7 |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/19/2013 10:40 AM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 14
First: 10/13/2011 Last: 5/14/2013 |
Whether or not discrimination is present is a fact-intensive analysis. The complained-of actions need to be sufficiently harmful, in order to be legally actionable, and there has to be a nexus between the actions and the protected class, such as gender. There can be direct evidence of discriminatory intent -- which is rare -- if the accused official actually expresses gender-based animus and/or uses offensive terms such as the "B-Word." More often, discrimination is established indirectly, through evidence that men were treated more favorably under similar circumstances. The person should consult an experienced labor and employment attorney regarding her situation, to learn her available legal options, if any. |
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Re: Is it Discrimination?
posted at 2/19/2013 10:59 AM EST
on Workforce Management
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Posts: 216
First: 9/20/2011 Last: 5/15/2013 |
In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination?: No I am not the complainant. In Response to Re: Is it Discrimination? : Posted by OfcMgr2010 Ok then what is the ETC, you mentioned was discussed in the termination? |
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