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New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems
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New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems
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I'm a supervisor and we just recieved new overtime guidelines for our non-union employees that states:   "overtime will be calculated for time worked over 8 hours in a day and 80 hours in a pay
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Forums  »  Topic Forums  »  Legal Forum  »  New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems

New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems

posted at 3/21/2012 8:01 PM EDT on Workforce Management
Posts: 1
First: 3/21/2012
Last: 3/21/2012
I'm a supervisor and we just recieved new overtime guidelines for our non-union employees that states:

 "overtime will be calculated for time worked over 8 hours in a day and 80 hours in a pay period and that both Annual (Vacation) and Sick Leave is not considered time worked when calculating overtime. For example if a non-union employee works a double shift either Mandatory or Voluntarily and has either Annual or Sick time in the same pay peroid (including CAP days) the entire double shift will be paid at straight time."

The current practice is that if a person worked a holiday or an overtime shift on their day off and used sick leave during the same pay period that person would be paid at straight time for the additional shift or straight time for the holiday.  This presented some problems already in that a few people who have FMLA had been issued mandatory overtime in a pay peroid where they also had FMLA leave and they were paid over 80-hours at straight time and their FMLA counter was charged.  At least one has filed a complaint and has an attorney pursing the issue on the grounds that the employee actually worked 80 hours in that pay peroid and we had no right to also take sick time and charge the FMLA counter as well.  

Now this new rule, which went into effect last pay period, is having us pay persons who are at the upper limit of vacation time (CAP) and in a use or lose situation straight time if there is overtime in the same pay period.  I know one employee this already applies to that was subject to 2 mandatory overtime shifts in a pay period where he had two CAP days that had been granted to prevent his loss of benefit time but had been made 2-weeks prior and could not be changed during the same pay period.  This puts him in the position of having 96 hours all paid at straight time, and another employee who had a vacation approved 6-months ago and worked 24-hours overtime in the week prior to leaving is now looking at having 104 hours all paid at straight time.

I am not recieving much guidance from HR, when I posed these issues as described above the response was "You are not necessarily incorrect in your understanding"  but was far from a definitive yes or no. They still seem to be sorting out these issues but in the mean time I am the one who is left to process the payroll for my employees and really need some additional insight into this issue.

Re: New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems

posted at 3/22/2012 9:01 AM EDT on Workforce Management
Posts: 174
First: 9/20/2011
Last: 2/11/2013
In Response to New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems:
I'm a supervisor and we just recieved new overtime guidelines for our non-union employees that states:   "overtime will be calculated for time worked over 8 hours in a day and 80 hours in a pay period and that both Annual (Vacation) and Sick Leave is not considered time worked when calculating overtime. For example if a non-union employee works a double shift either Mandatory or Voluntarily and has either Annual or Sick time in the same pay peroid (including CAP days) the entire double shift will be paid at straight time." The current practice is that if a person worked a holiday or an overtime shift on their day off and used sick leave during the same pay period that person would be paid at straight time for the additional shift or straight time for the holiday.  This presented some problems already in that a few people who have FMLA had been issued mandatory overtime in a pay peroid where they also had FMLA leave and they were paid over 80-hours at straight time and their FMLA counter was charged.  At least one has filed a complaint and has an attorney pursing the issue on the grounds that the employee actually worked 80 hours in that pay peroid and we had no right to also take sick time and charge the FMLA counter as well.   Now this new rule, which went into effect last pay period, is having us pay persons who are at the upper limit of vacation time (CAP) and in a use or lose situation straight time if there is overtime in the same pay period.  I know one employee this already applies to that was subject to 2 mandatory overtime shifts in a pay period where he had two CAP days that had been granted to prevent his loss of benefit time but had been made 2-weeks prior and could not be changed during the same pay period.  This puts him in the position of having 96 hours all paid at straight time, and another employee who had a vacation approved 6-months ago and worked 24-hours overtime in the week prior to leaving is now looking at having 104 hours all paid at straight time. I am not recieving much guidance from HR, when I posed these issues as described above the response was " You are not necessarily incorrect in your understanding"   but was far from a definitive yes or no. T hey still seem to be sorting out these issues but in the mean time I am the one who is left to process the payroll for my employees and really need some additional insight into this issue.
Posted by fristr


You have covered a lot of issues, I can only cover some of them. I am not a payroll expert but this is my understanding for the US.

Time not actually worked in a pay period does not have to count towards overtime pay requirements. So for the total hours in a pay period you can deduct all vacation, sick leave, etc from the total to determine if the person exceeds the 8/80 rule. If they do not then there is no OT obligation assuming that using a biweekly pay period of 80 hours is allowed under FLSA. In other words you have to actually appear and work more than 80 hours to receive the OT pay.

You are allowed to deduct from the FMLA bank any time deemed FMLA regardless of the other rules. So deducting sick leave(not vacation) from FMLA leave is perfectly ok as long as that is your stated, consistently applied policy. This is unrelated to the OT question.

Re: New Overtime Guidelines Pose Some Problems

posted at 3/23/2012 10:54 AM EDT on Workforce Management
Posts: 144
First: 9/21/2011
Last: 2/8/2013
What state are you in?  Because very few require overtime after 8 hours in any one day. If you are not in one of those states, then this is not a problem within the same payweek. It is a change to how they have calculated overtime in the past, but employer's have the right to change on a go-forward basis as long as they follow FLSA and any state wage laws.  If you are in a state that requires overtime after 8 hours a day (such as CA), then this would be an issue.

Who wrote the "new overtime guidelines"? i suspect it is your employer policy/guidelines because I have not heard of any new guidelines on the payroll forum that I frequent.  It sounds like they knew of the effects of the change and your understanding is correct in that it is not a positive change for employees who work overtime during the same week that they take PTO. 

I do think there might be an  issue with them using a 2 week period rather than a payweek (7 days/24 hour time period) since overtime is supposed to be calculated on a WEEKLY basis, not a biweekly basis.  There are a few exemptions for a few industries on this, but I don't know if your employer falls into that category.

'Covered, nonexempt employees must be paid overtime pay at no less than one and one-half times the employee’s regular rate of pay for hours worked in excess of 40 in a workweek.....

A workweek is a fixed and regularly recurring period of 168 hours, or seven consecutive 24-hour periods.  It may begin on any day of the week and at any hour of the day.  An employee’s frequency of pay (e.g., bi-weekly, semi-monthly, monthly) has no impact on this fixed workweek.  Each workweek stands alone; averaging hours worked over two or more workweeks is not permitted by the FLSA.  "  http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/otcalc/i2.asp

I suggest heading to that DOL website,reading that page and then hitting continue to see if your employer falls under any of the special circumstances

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