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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
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Sprint has decided to impose a more 'corporate' dress code on all its employees. Read the article in the July 7th issue of The Kansas City Star at the URL below:
http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/bu
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Forums » Topic Forums » Recruiting & Staffing » How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/8/1999 1:48 PM EDT
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Posts: 37
First: 6/15/1999 Last: 1/5/2001 |
Sprint has decided to impose a more 'corporate' dress code on all its employees. Read the article in the July 7th issue of The Kansas City Star at the URL below:
http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/business.pat ,business/3773abf3.707,.html I don't get it. First the high tech companies - such as Sprint - complain about not being about to attract and retain high-tech employees. Now, they decide to impose an antiquated and pointless dress code on the very employees they claim to want to retain. According to Sprint even Dockers are not 'dressy' enough. While I normally pride myself in being loyal, I'd quite my current job as a webmaster and go elsewhere if my employer ever decided that what I wear is more important than how I do my job. Many Sprint employees will likely do the same. It makes no sense to impose such an old-fashioned mandate on what people can wear to the office - especially in the middle of a major heat wave. Let's see how much time passes before Sprint complains about not being able to attract enough qualified employees. A casual dress code is often a strong selling point for attracting and retaining high-tech workers as well as those in other industries. It doesn't seem like there's really that much of a labor shortage when corporate America decides to end an employee benefit that costs nothing. In the meantime, I refuse to use Sprint for my long distance or cellular communications. |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/10/1999 10:23 AM EDT
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Posts: 9
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 7/14/1999 |
Here's my list of now NOT to.....
1. Lie in the interview. Make promises you can't keep. 2. Do all the talking and don't listen to the employee/potential employee 3. Ask only technical questions and forget about the whole employee 4. Get them for the lowest price you can. If they are earning below market now, take advantage of it. 5. Hire in new folks at market rates but don't bother reveiwing the salaries of the existing, loyal employees 6. Forget about training. 7. Say you have an open door policy, but keep your door closed and your phone on "do not disturb" and don't return calls 8. Lose everyone in the mire of bureaucracy 9. Show how important you are. 10. Don't keep up on industry trends yourself. |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/11/1999 9:46 AM EDT
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Posts: 37
First: 6/15/1999 Last: 1/5/2001 |
Right on Sarge! Excellent points. Instead of pushing for more H-1B visas, more employers should take note of your post and mine. Of course, it seems that buying indentured servants with visas is a less-expensive way to FORCE an employee to be loyal.
/>Here's my list of now NOT to..... />2. Do all the talking and don't listen to the employee/potential employee This describes a LOT of interviews Ive had in the past. />3. Ask only technical questions and forget about the whole employee This is about the only point I will disagree with. I only wish I were asked MORE technical questions. Since a lot of my technical expertise has been learned as a hobby, I would gladly welcome the ability to prove what I cant show on my resume. Most of the people who have interviewed me seem to have little or NO knowledge of what theyre considering hiring me for. />4. Get them for the lowest price you can. If they are earning below market now, take advantage of it. Yep. Whats funny is that despite all the talk about a shortage Ive had yet to see salaries rise in the San Diego area. />5. Hire in new folks at market rates but don't bother reviewing the salaries of the existing, loyal employees Ive seen all TOO MUCH of this going on. It really irks me to realize that I would be more valuable to my current (and other) employers if I had graduated in 99 instead of 95. I have been quite loyal to my current employer, but Im not sure how much longer I can hold out making less that what recent college graduates are supposedly getting HIRED at. />6. Forget about training. Fortunately, my current employer has been good in this area. />7. Say you have an open door policy, but keep your door closed and your phone on "do not disturb" and don't return calls Perhaps this is why supposedly the banking, insurance, and healthcare industries are supposedly having THE most trouble attracting and retaining technical employees. Managers in these industries need to get over their antiquated I am God, my workers are peons mentality and actually (gasp) TREAT THEIR EMPLOYEES WELL. These industries are also the least likely to loosen up in the areas of dress code and work hours. A flexible dress code and flextime are benefits that cost virtually NOTHING, but can make for happier AND more productive employees. |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/11/1999 9:59 PM EDT
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Posts: 14
First: 6/20/1999 Last: 7/21/2000 |
If you do not enjoy the IS field than change your situation. The world is not yours because you work in IS. I am in IS diong ERP apps and have seen the recent trend of the IS god-like creature that thinks that they run the company and the world revolves around their skills.
Rest assurred that business is making inroads to this by outsourcing and VISAS so they do not have to deal with you guys. What I would call a power user is what industry calls a shortage. You are the same guys that use Access and Javascript but want to make top bucks. Get Real. Find out what your boss makes and you will never make more at that company. That is life. Future trends in IS are bleek with large data centers running corporations. The real growth is in development and support at these locations. This is businesse's reaction to the shortage, They find a way to pay a market rate over the long haul. Even the ERP vendors are going to the ASP route. If you cannot wear appropriate clothes then go to a goth company where you do not have to bathe and you will be treated like scum. Of course, your coworkers will never go anywhere either. Tatoos, dreads, and not bathing are not corporate. IS is a support operation and thus a cost to a corporate organization. Learn to live with it or start your own development shop. You need to understand the hard realities of business before you go on to become a valued asset not expense to an organizaiton. Also, perhaps you complain too much and this is seen by your higher ups. This is an HR site not a bitch session. |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/12/1999 2:27 PM EDT
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Posts: 37
First: 6/15/1999 Last: 1/5/2001 |
>If you do not enjoy the IS field than change your situation. The world is not yours because you work in IS. I am in
/>IS diong ERP apps and have seen the recent trend of the IS god-like creature that thinks that they run the company />and the world revolves around their skills. Information technology management continues to spew its propaganda about a dire shortage of qualified workers, yet they refuse to accept the fact that lying is a double-edged sword. The IT industry tells the general public about how they are trying everything to attract and retain their so valuable IT employees. According to what the industry says, businesses have to put profit-generating projects on hold because there is such a dire shortage of employees to do the necessary work. Hardly a day passes that I dont hear multiple businesses state that they are offering recent college graduates AVERAGE starting salaries of $47,000 plus stock options and often signing bonuses. In other words, the IT industry is telling everyone that the industry is just full of lucrative career opportunities. Several colleagues and me have seen a much different picture, however. In San Diego, at least, the demand for technical expertise hardly seems as high as its made out to be. Having worked in the field for three years, I still have yet to receive any offers even CLOSE to the $47,000 that the industry claims is the usual starting salary. My friends in the field report similar experiences. Submitting my resumes numerous times to several local employers including Qualcomom and SEA (Systems Engineering Associates) has yet to result in even a phone call to inquire about what I have to offer. These same two (and countless other) business then turn around and tell Uncle Sam that theyre trying EVERYING to find candidates. Yeah right. />Rest assurred that business is making inroads to this by outsourcing and VISAS so they do not have to deal with you />guys. What I would call a power user is what industry calls a shortage. You are the same guys that use Access and />Javascript but want to make top bucks. Get Real. Find out what your boss makes and you will never make more at />that company. That is life. Well, youre the first industry official to actually be openly honest in stating why you want to import more workers. So, there isnt really a SHORTAGE, just not enough slave labor available. By the way: my boss makes more than three times what I make much more that I even CARE to make. JavaScript and the Web might not be of major use to Childrens Hospital, but web-based technology is becoming increasing valuable to various other industries. A well-designed and advertised web site COULD be effectively used for such purposes as fundraising for a hospital, however. />Future trends in IS are bleek with large data centers running corporations. The real growth is in development and />support at these locations. This is businesse's reaction to the shortage, They find a way to pay a market rate over the />long haul. Even the ERP vendors are going to the ASP route. You are right. Thats why I work for a company that is DOING the outsouced work corporate and government customers. I saw this trend a long time ago. My colleagues and I tend to stay away from seeking employment with non-high-tech companies for just this very reason. Since the future of IT is so bleak, then why does the industry continue to promote itself as being so glamorous as a career choice? Hmmm />If you cannot wear appropriate clothes then go to a goth company where you do not have to bathe and you will be />treated like scum. Of course, your coworkers will never go anywhere either. Tatoos, dreads, and not bathing are not />corporate. While I have long hair, I shower and shave every day. I wear jeans and polo-like shirts that are clean and in good repair. No grunge. I refuse to wear anything that constrains blood flow. The tie actually originated as a type of napkin that was worn around the neck so that it would be readily accessible. Funny how most people try NOT to get food on this useless relic of clothing. Several of the more successful companies successful companies such as Oracle, Microsoft, and now even IBM allow their employees to dress comfortably. Hell, Netscape even allows employees to bring their pets to the office. America Online recently saw Netscape as a wise investment and bought them out. The CEO of AOL pledges to maintain Netscapes easygoing and creative culture. />IS is a support operation and thus a cost to a corporate organization. Learn to live with it or start your own />development shop. You need to understand the hard realities of business before you go on to become a valued asset />not expense to an organizaiton. Dont tell that to corporate America. Businesses across continue to say that they will virtually get down on their knees to build and maintain their IS staffs. Again, corporate America is BEGGING Uncle Sam to let in more (cheap, indentured servant) foreign workers because their companies cant survive with out high-technology employees. Again, telling the public that technology workers are so valuable has become a double-edged sword. Treat your information technology employees like the "highly valuable" people you say they are. |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/12/1999 9:40 PM EDT
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Posts: 9
First: 6/12/1999 Last: 7/14/1999 |
My response to you, is "Why are you so quick to judge?" The "You Guys" implies that you think I am griping. Please be assured that I am not.
I am a hiring manager and I was trying to get the subject back on topic. My list is one that I practice daily. I am compensated based on numbers and retention and I MUST follow my own advice or I'd be giving up job satisfaction as well as money. I'm in this business because I love the IT industry and I love people. I have a total of 12 years with my employer, and I am loyal and have no intention of going elsewhere. There may be others here who are bitter, but not me. Also, I've never said one word against hiring H1-b's. In fact, if you read my other post about "What IT Shortage?", I stated that I always hire the best person for the job regardless of citizenship status. I just want to make myself clear. No one likes to be misunderstood. I wear the Brooks Bros. suits and walk the corporate line daily and I love it! |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/22/1999 8:55 PM EDT
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Posts: 6
First: 7/22/1999 Last: 4/18/2000 |
Jabodie, you definitely seem to have some issues with your immediate environment and the I/S environment in general. I do have to take issue with the "propaganda" tag you are putting on this discussion though. First, it is my experience that an H1-B candidate is hardly (in fact, not even close) to being cheap, either in salary or bill rate. Additionally, GETTING the H1-B processed is not the cheapest thing on Earth either. Second, cost has always been and will always be THE major concern for business. That means you try to hire people for positions at the lowest rate that is successful in getting your candidates to say yes. If that means $40000 for person A for position x and $50000 for person B for the same job, so be it. If it means paying management exponentially higher salaries, then that is the way it is.
That is not propaganda, that is business in a capitalist environment. If it is equity you are in search of, you will not find it in a capitalist environment. It is only found (and only in theory, not in reality) in economies like those found in a socialist or communist situation. As for dress codes, that is not propaganda either. It is simply one of many available mechanisms for a company to define and develop its unique corporate culture. You yourself pointed that out in your message by listing some companies and what they allow their employees to wear. All of those companies have their own corporate cultures that they each very carefully chose, defined and developed. So, in the end if you do not like a dress code, you probably will not like the rest of that company's corporate culture and will not enjoy working there. That too is just they way it is. |
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How NOT to attract and retain high-tech employees
posted at 7/23/1999 1:30 PM EDT
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Posts: 37
First: 6/15/1999 Last: 1/5/2001 |
You are missing the point of my post. I use the term 'propaganda' to refer to corporate Americas efforts to trick the public into thinking that theres a dire shortage of technical employees available domestically.
Many businesses claim that they are losing potential income because they cant hire enough people fast enough. This is yet another propaganda scheme. There are plenty of unemployed and underemployed skilled programmers, network administrators, database administrators, and webmasters in this country. As for dress codes: I was suggesting that businesses that are having trouble attracting candidates try relaxing their corporate environments a little. Or, is the shortage of talent really not so bad after all? If American businesses were really suffering because they cant attract and hire enough skilled candidates, they would have already changed their hiring practices in a heartbeat. Businesses still take an incredibly long time to even acknowledge receipt of a candidates resume if even at all. I have sent my resume to numerous companies and havent even gotten a simple phone interview. I am skilled in network administration (Windows NT), PERL, C++, ASP, MS Access, HTML 4, and JavaScript. I am also a fast learner. While I feel that I gained most of my experience as a hobby and through work, I even have that all-important piece of paper: a B.S. in Computer Science. My resume has been reviewed, critiqued, and reengineered following the advice of several recruiting agencies and other career professionals. Despite all this, I get almost NO response for any businesses in the San Diego area. I have loved working with computers and technology all my life. I even ran a BBS (an electronic forum for communication similar to what is here on Workforce Online, but covering different topics) for several years strictly as a nonprofit hobby. I often work 9 to 11 hour days on salary and HAVE been verbally praised by my superiors for both the efficiency AND quality of my work. The bottom line, however, is that I have yet to make even the supposed starting salary of $47,000. This starting salary figure is another area of propaganda that they industry is spreading. Are existing employees actually worth LESS than somebody just out of college? Is 27 too old for the technology industry? If there really is a shortage and skilled technical labor is in such high demand my colleagues and I certainly arent seeing any proof. |
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