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Thoughts on Coaching
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Thoughts on Coaching
Discuss your job search, the interviewing process, creating the right resume, how the HR profession's changes require new job-search approaches and related topics.
I do volunteer work where I coach and counsel the long term unemployed. Part of this is teaching them how to interview, how to write a better resume, how to network etc.
Sometimes it gets a bit mor
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/24/2011 4:35 AM EST
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Posts: 45
First: 1/13/2011 Last: 4/14/2011 |
I do volunteer work where I coach and counsel the long term unemployed. Part of this is teaching them how to interview, how to write a better resume, how to network etc.
Sometimes it gets a bit more personal. I have numerous 50+ year old professional "clients." Almost all are degreed and some have Graduate degrees. A couple even "do" HR. All have been unemployed nearly 2 years or more. They have been managers, directors and VP's. In short, an experienced bunch of people. All have similar stories of rejection after rejection after rejection. Cleverly couched as "you are over qualified". I've coached them on presenting value added, their willingness to work at a level different than in the past and the strong reasons why this is a good idea for them. It isn't working. These are very skilled people who can provide significant value. Beyond the covert age rejections they are getting their appear to be no other issues (The occasional "we need more specific industry focus but that is rare, and besides, they were interviewed face to face). This is not a localized issue as all of these people have interviewed across the country. What words of wisdom, specifically advice, can you offer that can be shared with them. They are not seeking a Pep Talk, rather, they are trying to go back to work, hopefully in a career area they have devoted a lot of time and energy into. Thank you all in advance. |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/24/2011 5:52 AM EST
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Posts: 544
First: 9/27/2004 Last: 9/13/2011 |
Essentially what you have are well-rounded pegs that could fit a variety of holes but they are faced with hiring managers who have the mentality that only square pegs will work (I sense this is age discrimination but we won't go there since there is nothing we can do about it).
But sometimes that mentality is going on with the job seeker too. Are they being too narrow in their search? If they are continually being seen as "over qualified" maybe they need to up the ante and apply for more challenging positions? Or maybe they could even the field by applying for jobs outside their experience? Skills can be applied to teaching, consulting, and other professions that need qualified experts. Maybe if they think about themselves in broader terms others will begin to see them that way? |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/24/2011 6:01 AM EST
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Posts: 45
First: 1/13/2011 Last: 4/14/2011 |
Thanks deltac, those are good points (your summation is correct to and we CANNOT do anything about it).
I have been successful with some of them doing what you suggest, sadly none have landed and I need that to happen to show the others it can work. I suspect many of them are "married" to the local area and do not want to leave (it is a nice area but I digress). Again, thanks for the input and I hope others will chime in. Whether as individuals we are facing it now, or have faced it, the bottom line is that ultimately we will all face it. Helping each other out will hopefully make that experience not as painful. |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/24/2011 7:58 AM EST
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Posts: 544
First: 9/27/2004 Last: 9/13/2011 |
Hopefully things will improve if the economy improves. If you suspect age discrimination you could look at how they are presenting their qualifications.
When I was in my mid-thirties a resume coach advised me to not reveal that I had worked for the same company for over 10 years because it made me look old. Ouch! But I made that change, even though it felt like lying, and I did get more interviews. |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/25/2011 10:37 AM EST
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Posts: 2442
First: 2/12/2000 Last: 9/14/2011 |
HRPRO- As it turns out I am leading a similar group at a local not for profit organization and of course have encountered the same issues.
I have had some success with the following: First they have to change how the look for employment. Most of them are very poor at networking and reluctant to do so. The ones that network more efficiently have found jobs and I have them come back and explain how they did it. Just ask them how many times each day they are making an Outbound phone call to someone who can help them with their job search. Their answers will tell you the whole story. Second, they need to change how their resumes look. The old fashion resume just does not work effectively any more. Third, they need to understand that in this new world of work that they are "free agents" all the time and must consider project and contract work as the new standard of employment. Fourth, they need to be able to demonstrate and talk about how they social network. Are they actively using linkedin etc.? Fifth, are you familar with Job Search Teams? One of local organizations has been developing this technique over the past 15 years and is a leader in this field. I recommend that they all go to this groups weekly meetings. See the book by Orville Pierson Hope this helps. |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/25/2011 11:36 AM EST
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Posts: 562
First: 11/12/2009 Last: 9/14/2011 |
I think a willingness to be flexible is essential. I fall into the older HR practitioner category and, although I've had to scramble a few times to stay employed, I've managed to do by considering alternatives.
I've been a VP HR for a couple of companies, but at age 60 it's not likely I will be again. And I'm not sure I want to be, either. I've done contract executive recruiting (recruiting is my strength) and I've also had a nice run doing applicant tracking system selection/implementation consulting. I've essentially focused on what my key strengths in my career were and then tried to leverage those into admittedly short term assignments (eg /> 1 year) but ones which have paid the bills. And in yet another shift, I've gone into the federal government heading up a staffing team. I'm pretty sure I'll be here until I retire. There's no reason that an HR executive whose been a pro in benefits can't go to work for a benefits provider in sales. No reason that a compensation guru can't become a consultant, or a staffing person can't go to work for an ATS firm, an outsourced staffing firm, or executive search. These are roles in which experience is valued, but they're not the same roles that many of us have been used to having. Networking is certainly key, and I sympathize with those who are afraid to pick up the phone and be a supplicant. The first call is the hardest - left to my own devices, I could sit and watch the phone for hours before screwing up the nerve to dial that first number. But once you do, the next ones are way easier. Solid self assessment of skills and what you have to offer coupled with a willingness to be flexible and willingness to make the d****d phone calls should do it in a lot of cases. |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/25/2011 11:53 AM EST
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Posts: 2442
First: 2/12/2000 Last: 9/14/2011 |
HRPro
Further to my note above and rereading your OP I did really give you much input re the interviewing rejections. If that is the biggest issue then the rejections are due one or more of the following: 1. Really not looking the part. Many aged applicants no longer look "sharp". This is an immeidate turn off and can imply that they are not willing to what it takes. 2. Really not distinguishing themselves when they answer the questions. How do you know if they are really projecting value? The key question most employers ask for more senior jobs is "Can you make me money and can you save me money"! This is the real "value" the employer is looking for. How are they making sure that this theme come across in the interviews? 3. Suggest you do some mock interviews and have the others observe. Make sure that you ask some tough behavioral questions so you can see how they are answering the situations. 4. They need to make sure that they project high energy in their demeanor and their answers. Remember that they are most likely being interviewed by folks alot younger and of the opposite sex. I hope this is more helpful |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/26/2011 5:45 AM EST
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Posts: 2442
First: 2/12/2000 Last: 9/14/2011 |
An article published today that is consistent with what I wrote above
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Overcoming Age Discrimination By the 6FigureJobs Editors If this factor is true, then it is certainly almost impossible to prove, as no hiring manager would openly admit to this because it is illegal to discriminate against age. Itâs also possible that hiring managers might not be aware they are being influenced to favor the youth over the elder. So, if this popular perception of age discrimination truly does influence the hiring decision, then it faces great challenges to actually be proven. Unfortunately, there is no option for a quick dip in the Fountain of Youth just before a job interview. Those who feel age discrimination is a major challenge to their career advancement should, however, conduct a good self assessment. Everyone has their strengths and areas that need improvement but the challenge is to think openly about them without clouding yourself with your own critical perceptions. Once you become self aware of areas that need improvement then they can be overcome. Objectively identifying your challenged areas, combined with your strengths, will put you at a clear advantage. So, ask yourself honestly: Are you demonstrating enough energy? Firm hand shakes, smiles, confidence and positive energy should be radiating from you the moment you step into an interview. Giving off even small signals of being tired and frustrated will leave hiring managers with the feeling that the same attitude may come across in your work. A good nightâs sleep is essential as it will allow you to reach your best energy level and also keep your appearance looking fresh. Are you keeping up with technology? With each generation technology becomes more naturally applied, so keeping up with these skills is important to be competitive. It makes a difference to hiring managers when they sense your hesitation when it comes to technology or lack of confidence with your skills. Take classes or online courses to keep your skills current. If you notice an area of weakness and canât afford classes then you should at least do some research on the subject. You can join groups and subscribe to newsletters to increase your knowledge in areas that you know you need more development or awareness in. Do you have confidence in the connection? If you are at the interview then there is some sort of possible connection; otherwise, the recruiter or hiring manager would not invest in the time to meet with you. Figure out what the strongest connections are that match your skills and experience to the opportunity. Then, review all angles of these benefits aloud to yourself or with a trusted contact that will give you honest feedback. This will help you reflect confidence, but most importantly, it will build your own confidence that you are perfect for this opportunity. This is the only way to demonstrate it authentically. Is your appearance noticeably worn out? Dying your hair should not be the go to solution to freshening up your appearance. Take a good look at your attire to be sure it is not dated. Perhaps your staple suit is ill fitting or worn, so then go see your tailor. Perhaps your tie is dated, so get a new one. Ask a trusted contact that can be honest with you to determine what signals your interview attire is sending off. Go for modern professional, not trendy or vintage. Are you more qualified then the younger candidate? You should have confidence that you bring more to the table. You have valuable experience and developed skills that have been applied with proven success factors. Anyone would agree that it is logical to bet on the candidate that has proven success rather than gamble on one that may only have potential. Overcoming Age Discrimination By the 6FigureJobs Editors If this factor is true, then it is certainly almost impossible to prove, as no hiring manager would openly admit to this because it is illegal to discriminate against age. Itâs also possible that hiring managers might not be aware they are being influenced to favor the youth over the elder. So, if this popular perception of age discrimination truly does influence the hiring decision, then it faces great challenges to actually be proven. Unfortunately, there is no option for a quick dip in the Fountain of Youth just before a job interview. Those who feel age discrimination is a major challenge to their career advancement should, however, conduct a good self assessment. Everyone has their strengths and areas that need improvement but the challenge is to think openly about them without clouding yourself with your own critical perceptions. Once you become self aware of areas that need improvement then they can be overcome. Objectively identifying your challenged areas, combined with your strengths, will put you at a clear advantage. So, ask yourself honestly: Are you demonstrating enough energy? Firm hand shakes, smiles, confidence and positive energy should be radiating from you the moment you step into an interview. Giving off even small signals of being tired and frustrated will leave hiring managers with the feeling that the same attitude may come across in your work. A good nightâs sleep is essential as it will allow you to reach your best energy level and also keep your appearance looking fresh. Are you keeping up with technology? With each generation technology becomes more naturally applied, so keeping up with these skills is important to be competitive. It makes a difference to hiring managers when they sense your hesitation when it comes to technology or lack of confidence with your skills. Take classes or online courses to keep your skills current. If you notice an area of weakness and canât afford classes then you should at least do some research on the subject. You can join groups and subscribe to newsletters to increase your knowledge in areas that you know you need more development or awareness in. Do you have confidence in the connection? If you are at the interview then there is some sort of possible connection; otherwise, the recruiter or hiring manager would not invest in the time to meet with you. Figure out what the strongest connections are that match your skills and experience to the opportunity. Then, review all angles of these benefits aloud to yourself or with a trusted contact that will give you honest feedback. This will help you reflect confidence, but most importantly, it will build your own confidence that you are perfect for this opportunity. This is the only way to demonstrate it authentically. Is your appearance noticeably worn out? Dying your hair should not be the go to solution to freshening up your appearance. Take a good look at your attire to be sure it is not dated. Perhaps your staple suit is ill fitting or worn, so then go see your tailor. Perhaps your tie is dated, so get a new one. Ask a trusted contact that can be honest with you to determine what signals your interview attire is sending off. Go for modern professional, not trendy or vintage. Are you more qualified then the younger candidate? You should have confidence that you bring more to the table. You have valuable experience and developed skills that have been applied with proven success factors. Anyone would agree that it is logical to bet on the candidate that has proven success rather than gamble on one that may only have potential. |
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Thoughts on Coaching
posted at 1/26/2011 7:06 AM EST
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Posts: 45
First: 1/13/2011 Last: 4/14/2011 |
Thanks everyone. Some of what you have shared is validation of the efforts and activities that myself and the other volunteers are doing. Some of what you share is good information and of course we will give it a try as it becomes appropriate.
I like the brainstorming method that we can have here and appreciate the results. Thanks again. |
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